Woo vs. Harmon - Witness Henry Kissinger

According to Wikipedia.com, Henry Kissinger served as National Security Advisor and later Secretary of State in the Nixon administration, continuing in the latter position after Gerald Ford became President in the aftermath of the Watergate scandal. A proponent of Realpolitik, Kissinger played a dominant role in United States foreign policy between 1969 and 1977. During this time, he pioneered the policy of détente that led to a significant relaxation in US–Soviet tensions and played a crucial role in 1972 talks with Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai that concluded with the "opening" of China and the formation of a new strategic anti-Soviet Sino–American alliance...

Kissinger favored the maintenance of friendly diplomatic relationships with anti-Communist military dictatorships in the Southern Cone and elsewhere in Latin America, and approved of covert intervention in Chilean politics. He has been accused of complicity and encouragement in the atrocities committed by the Argentine military junta. Spanish judge Baltasar Garzon requested that Kissinger answer questions about matters relating to these humans rights abuses, but the US State Department rejected this petition.

During his time in the Nixon and Ford administrations he cut a flamboyant figure, appearing at social occasions with many of America's most celebrated beauties. His foreign policy record made him enemies amongst anti-war liberals and conservative anti-Communist hawks alike; controversy surrounding Kissinger has by no means receded in the years since.

With the recent declassification of Nixon and Ford administration documents relating to US policy toward South America and East Timor, Kissinger has come under fire from certain journalists and human rights advocacy groups, both in the US and abroad. Several have accused him of having committed war crimes; author and journalist Christopher Hitchens is perhaps most prominent among the accusers.

Want to know a few of the results of the move towards the so-called "Global Economy" which has become the nirvana Corporate America seeks? Be very careful, you might not like what you find.

According to U.N. documents, 4 million women a year are sold into sexual slavery around the world. Understand, these documents aren't discussing some Mid- Eastern potentate's harem. What we're talking about is 500,000 women "imported" into Western Europe and 90,000 into Italy, alone. These women are kidnapped and sold into prostitution for the gratification of men like the late Larry Hilblom, the founder of DHL courier service. Hilblom, it should be added, also participated in the kidnapping and sales of many young women, as well.

The majority of these women, who are mostly just young girls, come from the countries once known as client states of the old Soviet Union, such as Albania and the Ukraine. In fact, the selling of girls for the sexual gratification of wealthy men has become a major export for many of the supposedly free nations from the former Soviet bloc.

Amazingly, many of these women are moved through our ally Israel. The reason Israel is a major center for these atrocities is that Israel has absolutely no laws against the sale or ownership of other humans. Now there is wonderful reason to continue our hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign aid to this moral back water of a country.

The main reason that these crimes can so easily occur is the demand by the world's corporations that there be few or no inspections at national borders and that, with corporations buying up governments just like ours at bargain prices, they own the decisions to investigate crimes and, of course, see no reason to investigate the very crimes they, themselves, are committing.

Now, of course, America is immune from these charges, aren't we. I mean, this is the country where politicians spend their entire careers shouting about their fairy tale world of "family values", right? Our government would immediately spring into action should even a hint of this crime appear within our borders, right?

Wrong, of course. Thai women were imported into the United States and forced into sexual slavery in New York, Houston and Toronto, according to stories in the LA Times, New York Times and Dallas Morning News.

How long will it take the corporate prostitutes in Washington, D.C., to even acknowledge these crimes? How many conservatives do you think are going to stand up in protest against these horrors against humanity? How many will demand hundreds of billions of dollars to fight these crimes against humanity? What is less than none?

Unless America wakes up to these violations against humanity and demands action from the blow hards in office, nothing, whatsoever, will ever happen. Why? Because the victims do not fall within the parameters these vile people respect. These are young girls from foreign countries that don't contribute to American political coffers, nor are they related to anyone who owns enough property to matter to American politicians. If they were all Republican, Christian, wealthy wives and daughters of campaign contributors then this would be a problem of cosmic proportion. They aren't, so the problem is ignored.

These crimes against women are only the most extreme examples of the damage that is being done to people all over the world in the name of corporate profits. Add in the disease ridden fruit coming into America from countries which have little in the way of health and safety laws and food covered with the pesticides that America banned so Corporate America sold its stock to the same Third World countries now supplying us with our daily fruits and vegetables and grains.

Consider the effects that corrupt rulers the world over have regarding the financial health of your retirement and investments and, if the idiots who hate government safety nets have their way, your Social Security. Consider the damage another episode like the Hunt brothers attempt to corner the silver market would have on America if it were done by a nation or groups of nations. Finally, consider the costs of a simple computer virus invading the systems which control what will be the world's financial institution.

You, as an individual, have absolutely nothing to gain in a global economy. In fact, you will be the loser if you continue to listen to the lies and do not begin fighting the mutation of your world into a world corporation where the wealthy would rule through unlimited economic power. As in all things, it is your choice but your inaction will affect billions of people for centuries to come.

NEW DISCOVERY (04-22-08): David Farmer’s undisclosed connections with AIPAC and Henry Kissinger:

In his "MEMORANDUM IN OPPOSITION TO DEBTOR'S MOTION FOR ORDER TO DISAPPROVE APPOINTMENT OF DAVID C. FARMER AS SUCCESSOR TRUSTEE", filed with the Court on August 24, 2007, the Trustee's attorney, Steven Guttman, Esq., of the law firm, Kessner Umebayashi Bain & Matsunaga, stated to the Court:

"... Harmon is once again attempting to create issues of conflict where none exist by attempting to draw connections between phantom dots."...

Mr. Guttman does not elaborate beyond this simple statement of HIS PERSONAL OPINION, as to WHICH of the thousands of connections I have cited that he wishes the Court to accept, without question, as being merely "phantom dots". In other court filings, Mr. Guttman has characterized my Motions as consisting of "conspiracy theories" -- again with no specific references.

Despite these unnamed "phantom dots" and "conspiracy theories", the Court has blithely and unquestionably gone along with Mr. Guttman's opinions and has repeatedly denied ALL Motions that I have made. In fact, both Courts involved have ruled that the Court Clerk shall not accept any future filings from me without the Courts' prior approval - which it has repeatedly declined to give.

Therefore, due to the fact that I continue to discover new, material FACTS almost daily, I am preparing a set of NEW EXHIBITS in which I intend to document the financial, professional, personal, and political connections between the many various entities involved in this case.

The following is a listing of named witnesses in this case who have factual connections with the subject entity. Each underlined name has been linked to a detailed description of that witness to enable the reader to more easily CONNECT THE DOTS TO...

Ex-Sec/State Henry Kissinger has agreed to become an honorary co-chair for Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign in New York, McCain aides said. Along with Kissinger, McCain has won the support of Pete Peterson, a former U.S. ambassador to Vietnam and POW, and John Whitehead, the former Goldman Sachs chair and Reagan admin official.

Also -- on the eve of ex-NYC mayor Rudy Giuliani's first exploratory committee fundraiser, McCain also unveiled the names of the 57 wealthy and famous donors who've agreed to serve on his NY, CT and NJ finance teams.

They include Henry Kravis, a founding partner of the KKR conglomerate, John Lehman, the 9/11 commissioner and ex-Navy sec. and Woody Johnson, the owner of the New York Jets.

David C. Farmer, Esq.
Office of the United States Trustee
c/o Steven Guttman, Esq., Kessner Duca Umebayashi, et al.
220 S. King Street, Floor 10
Honolulu, HI 96813

Re: 99-04339 - David C. Farmer, Trustee vs. Bobby N. Harmon
Ref. New Exhibit: “THE DIRTY MILLIONS FOR ARMAGEDDON”

Due to new discoveries regarding the Integrated Resources securities fraud and illegal U.S. political campaign funding by foreign nationals (Israel), I am adding the subject Exhibit. You will find this new Exhibit and related witness descriptions at:

Mr. Farmer, I again suggest that we try to resolve this matter through negotiation rather that your continuing indefinitely this illegal SLAPP lawsuit.

CHICAGO (CP) - Delaware Chancery Court has approved a $50-million settlement involving Henry Kissinger, Marie-Josee Kravis and other former directors of Hollinger International Inc.

Sun-Times Media Group Inc. (NYSE:SVN), as Hollinger International now is known, said Monday that the settlement, announced in May 2005, will be funded from its officers-and-directors liability insurance policies.

The claim had been filed in 2003 by Hollinger International investor Cardinal Value Equity Partners, whose law firm pockets $2.5 million of the $50 million being paid to Sun-Times Media.

As part of the settlement, Cardinal's claims against deposed Hollinger chairman and CEO Conrad Black and others, including his wife Barbara Amiel Black and associates Daniel Colson and David Radler, are dismissed without prejudice.

Sun-Times Media said the dismissal without prejudice enables the company to continue pursuing its claims against Black and the others.

This litigation has been stayed pending the outcome of the criminal cases against Black and others, who were charged last year in Chicago.

Sun-Times Media "is committed to continuing our efforts to obtain additional recoveries," Gordon Paris, the company's CEO and chairman of a special committee of the board, said Monday.

The former directors covered by the Cardinal settlement include former U.S. state secretary Kissinger, former Illinois governor James Thompson, former U.S. diplomat Richard Burt, and Kravis, a Quebec-born economist formerly married to symphony conductor Charles Dutoit and now the spouse of New York financier Henry Kravis.

Other ex-directors included in the agreement are Shmuel Meitar, Dwayne Andreas, Raymond Chambers, Robert Strauss, Alfred Taubman, Lord Weidenfeld and Leslie Wexner.

The Delaware court also approved a previously announced $2.8-million settlement with former company executive Peter Atkinson, who was once part of Black's inner circle who later agreed to help Hollinger International's investigation.

Sun-Times Media, which at its late-1990s peak under Black's direction included Canada's dominant group of big-city newspapers, the Telegraph of London and the Jerusalem Post, has shrunk to the Chicago Sun-Times and an assortment of other Chicago-area publications.

Cardinal was among the first to raise complaints about Black's corporate governance, which ultimately led to his removal from the company's lushly appointed executive suite amid an avalanche of ongoing legal proceedings....

May 31 (Bloomberg) -- American Home Assurance Co., a unit of American International Group Inc., and Chubb Corp. may pay $50 million to cover a settlement by ex-Hollinger International Inc. directors sued by a minority shareholder, a Canadian judge ruled.

In exchange for the $50 million, Hollinger shareholder Cardinal Capital Management LLC agreed to drop its lawsuit against directors accused of disregarding the alleged looting of the company by ex-Chief Executive Officer Conrad Black.

The proposed payout was opposed by excess insurers Ace Ltd., Zurich Insurance Co. and Royal Insurance Plc, which cover losses over $50 million. Having exhausted the limits of American Home and Chubb coverage for Hollinger directors, the May 23 ruling puts the onus on Ace, Zurich and Royal to cover future settlements in the case.

Ontario Superior Court Judge Colin Campbell's ruling, ``held, in effect, that they can't just veto the settlement,'' Eric Hoaken, lawyer for Hollinger International, said in a telephone interview. ``I think it's an important case that clarifies the obligations of insurers.''

Insurance companies generally don't provide coverage for derivative lawsuits, where a shareholder sues on behalf of the company, Gary Luftspring, a lawyer representing Ace, Zurich and Royal, said. Where coverage is provided, it's usually limited to derivative suits where a shareholder has a stake of less than 10 percent in the company, as in this case.

Chubb, based in Warren, New Jersey, is the second-largest U.S. insurer of corporate boards. American Home is a subsidiary of New York-based American International Group, Inc., the world's largest insurance company. The $50 million payout must still be approved by a judge in Delaware, where the Cardinal suit was initially filed, Hoaken said.

Hollinger International, based in Chicago, publishes the Chicago Sun-Times, among other newspapers.

The company's board ousted Black as CEO in November 2003, sued him and stripped him of the title of chairman the following January. Hollinger International sued Black to recover more than $425 million that it accused him and his associates of stealing to finance lavish lifestyles.

Black, 61, was also sued by his holding company, Hollinger Inc., and by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. He pleaded not guilty to U.S. criminal charges of racketeering, money laundering, wire fraud and obstruction of justice. His trial is set for March 5, 2007.

The case is Re: Hollinger International Inc. No. 05-CV- 285277PD3, Ontario Superior Court, Toronto.

In so far as it has a central thesis, it is that Jones initiated the 1978 massacre at Jonestown, Guyana because he feared that Congressman Leo Ryan's investigation would disgrace him. Specifically, Jones was afraid that Ryan and the press would uncover evidence that the leftist founder of the Peoples Temple was for many years an asset of the FBI and the CIA.

This fear was, I believe, mirrored in various precincts of the U.S. intelligence community, which worried that Ryan's investigation would embarrass the CIA by linking Jones to some of the Agency's most volatile programs---including "mind-control studies" and operations such as MK-ULTRA.

This is, I believe, why Jones's 201-file was purged by the CIA immediately after Jones's case-officer, Dan Mitrione, was murdered in Montevideo, Uruguay.

What I believe and what I can prove are, in some instances, two different things. There is no smoking gun in the pages that follow. But I think the reader will agree that there are certainly a great many empty cartridges lying around---enough, perhaps, to stimulate further investigation by others.

Having said that, it should be added that I am hardly the first to suggest that the Jonestown massacre was the outcome of someone's secret machinations. The affair is inherently mysterious, and conspiracy theories abound---the most prominent among them that "Jonestown" was a CIA mind-control experiment.

This is a view that has been put forward in a number of venues. Congressman Ryan's close friend and chief-of-staff, Joe Holsinger, is persuaded of it. The respectable Edwin Mellen Press has gone so far as to publish a book on the subject. And professional conspiracists such as John Judge have embraced the thesis wholeheartedly.

In my view, they're probably mistaken. The truth is darker, the evil more banal...

In 1992, Harry Katz phoned the President of AIPAC, David Steiner, to offer contributions. Steiner proceeded to make several claims, including negotiating with then-candidate Bill Clinton over who would be Secretary of State, and had already "cut a deal" with Baker for more aid to Israel.

Unknown to Steiner, Katz taped the phone call and gave the recording to the media, worried that AIPAC's influence had grown to dangerous levels.

Following the release of transcripts of the phone conversation, David Steiner was forced to resign the Presidency of AIPAC.

The following is a transcript of the Oct. 22, 1992 conversation with President David Steiner of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) recorded without his knowledge by New York businessman Haim (Harry) Katz. Its existence was first revealed to the Washington Times and its release triggered Steiner's resignation:

David Steiner AIPAC: Haim.

Haim Katz: Hello, how are you?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Where are you located?

HAIM KATZ: I'm located in Queens, New York.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Queens.. .Far Rockaway?

HAIM KATZ: Belle Harbor.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Belle Harbor. I'm trying to get this list together. Would you ever get into the city?

HAIM KATZ: Sure, I do. Sure, you come frequently?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Well I come in from time to time. I have an office there, at AIPAC in the city. You know, I want you to understand . . . where did you get my name and phone number?

HAIM KATZ: Oh, I, um, I called AIPAC. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah.

HAIM KATZ: And ahh. . .I know you're the president of AIPAC...

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: You should understand that, the political information that I gave you, those are personal choices . . .

HAIM KATZ: Sure, I understand.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: AIPAC does not rate or endorse candidates, does not solicit money. . .

HAIM KATZ: Yeah, look.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I want you to understand that the choices I would give you are personal choices.

HAIM KATZ: I understand.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I wonder if before . . . I want to get together with you next week.

HAIM KATZ: Next week would be fine.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: But in the meantime, I wonder if I can have one of my people get together with you and talk to you about it . . . They'll want to meet you and know who you are and all this. I have a.. . maybe if I can have Seth Buchwald call you, my New York director.

HAIM KATZ: That would be terrific.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: And we have a guy out there, Joel Schnur. And, are you orthodox?

HAIM KATZ: Ah, yes.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Okay, Joel is orthodox too. I am not.

HAIM KATZ: You're reform or?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I'm reform.

HAIM KATZ: Okay, let me just say. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I was raised orthodox but I'm reform.

HAIM KATZ: Okay, let me just tell you that, I'll just hold you a minute. I'll be happy to meet with them, I know, I've heard the names, I'd be happy to meet with them, as a matter of fact I could, when I'm in Manhattan...Are you ever in Manhattan?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Sure, today I'm going to be there, but I can't. I'm meeting with the ambassador.

HAIM KATZ: Okay, I'll just ask you very very quickly. You know, like, in New York, you know, this is your own personal opinion, like in New York we have Abrams against D'Amato.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Well, let me tell you what my personal position is. Okay?

HAIM KATZ: Yeah.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: From a Jewish point of view, I believe in political loyalty.

HAIM KATZ: Right.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: And if someone has been good for Israel, no matter who, if my brother would run against them, I would support them because they'd been good to Israel because that's an important message to people.

HAIM KATZ: Right.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: What I'm going to be doing for you. . .

HAIM KATZ: Now D'Amato, has he been good for Israel?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: You couldn't have a better . . . listen I think Abrams would be good too, but that's not the message.

HAIM KATZ: Yeah.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Ah...

HAIM KATZ: So the message, so the message is that ah...I agree with you all the way, that if somebody's been good for Israel, I'll take D'Amato. But you have no complaints with D'Amato?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I have no complaints with D'Amato.

HAIM KATZ: Uh huh, so and ah, you know, let me tell you, Abrams might be, might be too liberal. I don't know if Abrams supported, let's say the ah, the war against Iraq.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah, I don't know, and ah, I don't know. But all I know is if I have a guy who is there and he's doing it, then I don't want to change, you know?

HAIM KATZ: Right. Let me ask you this very quickly and then I will. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I'm going to have Seth call you because in the meantime I'm going to be preparing this list, what I'm doing is, I've asked my friends AIPAC in the various campaigns, I've made about 30 calls, what I'm trying to put together who needs AIPAC it the most, you know? Because you could dissipate a million dollars, but the point is to put it where it's going to do the most, I know Bob Kasten, who's been an outstanding friend and needs AIPAC it I know. . .

HAIM KATZ: Excuse my ignorance. Bob Kasten is what state?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: From Wisconsin. . .

HAIM KATZ: Okay, is he Jewish?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: . . .He's for loan guarantees, he happens to be a Republican.

HAIM KATZ: Okay, and but, he's good? He's. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: You couldn't have better.

HAIM KATZ: Is Kasten, Kasten's been very, very good and he's in trouble?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: He's in big trouble. Les Aspin, who's the Chairman of the Military Appropriations, a Democrat also from Wisconsin is really [unintelligible].

HAIM KATZ: You mean, Les Aspin is in trouble?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: In big trouble.

HAIM KATZ: I can't believe it. I mean, I don't, I don't follow . . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Well see, what happened was, you know ah, when you get to know me, I'll put you on my list and I'll be sending all these things. A wealthy businessman decided to run, using all his own money. Aspin, 'cause they sit on the finance committee for Aspin. . .

HAIM KATZ: Right.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: . ..programmed the last two weeks of, well the last month of the campaign, for TV. This guy came in two months early and we didn't have the money budgeted, so we're out scratching around to raise money for him. So we, heck, I told him, I said that I'd go, I'll sign on the bank on a loan for you, you know, that's how important it is.

HAIM KATZ: Unbelievable. You know I read, I won't hold you long, but I'd just tell you this. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: That's okay.

HAIM KATZ: . . .I'll just tell you this, I read the New York Post, and I don't even read the papers too much, I don't follow politics . . . are you ready for this?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah.

HAIM KATZ: Get ready for this. I read in the papers this morning, I think it was the (NY) Post, Barbara Boxer, in California. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah.

HAIM KATZ: . ..do you know who she is?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I know who...

HAIM KATZ: She's originally from, ah. . . New York I think. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: A friend of yours?

HAIM KATZ: No, no, no. She's not a friend of mine, but she, ah, I think she's in trouble.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yean, that's ah, in that race we're okay either way, 'cause Bruce Herschensohn, who she's running against, is Jewish, and he's very strong on our issues.

HAIM KATZ: Okay, but Herschensohn.. .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Herschensohn's a very conservative Republican.

HAIM KATZ: You know, he's come out of nowhere. He was like 30 points behind.. .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Right.

HAIM KATZ: He's come out of nowhere with it.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Because the truth of the matter is, she didn't always vote for foreign aid. We had a big meeting, I had a program in L.A. I had all four senatorial candidates there, and he ripped her apart. She has always voted against foreign and.

HAIM KATZ: What about the one, in ah, the one in. . . um, what's his name? I read it in the paper, it's just a shocker, politics is a crazy game. The black woman in Chicago. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Carol Moseley Braun?

HAIM KATZ: She was going to win by 50 points. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Oh it's down, she took the money, it's a big problem.

HAIM KATZ: It's a big problem with her. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: And we have a problem with another good friend. You know Daniel Inouye, from Hawaii he's one of our best friends AIPAC. It was Kasten-Inouye on the loan guarantees, Kasten-Inouye and Leahy.. .

HAIM KATZ: I heard, I saw it on, I know Inouye's in trouble because of, he sexually harassed his hairdresser. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We commissioned a poll and got some people, and I've got to raise $27,000 to pay for the poll . . . so I have, so what I'm trying to do is make a priority list, because I don't know how far you want to go. . . how old are your kids AIPAC by the way? . . . You had three children that could write checks, do they have their own checking accounts?

HAIM KATZ: Yes.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Oh, so that's not going to be. . .

HAIM KATZ: How old do they have to be?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: They can't be one year old.

HAIM KATZ: I mean, could they be 18, 17?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Sure, no problem, so they could make, nobody's going to bother you, but if you had infants, a four-year-old, let's say, it's not a contest.

HAIM KATZ: Let me tell you, I was planning, I was planning to, to . . . Inouye, by the way, is in real trouble? He's been there forever. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah! Well, we might lose him. There's been such a sea change, such trouble this year, I can't believe all our friends AIPAC that are in trouble. Because there's an anti-incumbency mood, and foreign aid has not been popular. You know what I got for, I met with [U.S. Secretary of State] Jim Baker and I cut a deal with him. I got, besides the $3 billion, you know they're looking for the Jewish votes, and I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear. . .

HAIM KATZ: Right.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Besides the $10 billion in loan guarantees which was a fabulous thing, $3 billion in foreign, in military aid, and I got almost a billion dollars in other goodies that people don't even know about.

HAIM KATZ: Such as?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: $700 million in military draw-down, from equipment that the United States Army's going to give to Israel; $200 million the U.S. government is going to preposition materials in Israel, which Israel can draw upon; put them in the global warning protection system; so when if there's a missile fired, they'll get the same advanced notification that the U.S., is notified, joint military exercises—I've got a whole shopping list of things.

HAIM KATZ: So this is from Baker?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: From Baker and from the Pentagon.

HAIM KATZ: So, not so, not.. .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Why did he do it, you know, why did he do it? Last year I was a bum. This year I said look Jim, we're going to fight on the F-l5s. Israel doesn't want to fight, I said, but some people on it are going to come up on the floor of the Senate and the House and they're going to fight. If you'll do this, I think I can hold them back. But you've got to do it right away. They didn't want to fight. I said, "You don't want a fight before the election. It's going to hurt Bush. We don't want a fight before the election. We don't want to fight at all. Why can't we work something out?" So we cut a deal. You can't repeat this.

HAIM KATZ: You're right. But you met with Baker. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Personally.

HAIM KATZ: Personally. Because you know, he's the one who cursed, who cursed the Jews.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Of course, do you think I'm ever going to forgive him for that?

HAIM KATZ: Unbelievable. I said...

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Do you think I could ever forgive Bush for what he did September 12th a year ago? What he said about the Jews for lobbying in Washington?

HAIM KATZ: Do you think that Baker has a legitimate concern for the Jews? From what I hear, do you think he's anti-Semitic?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I wouldn't go so far as to say that. He's a pragmatic businessman, he's a very tough lawyer. He does whatever it takes.

HAIM KATZ: And that's why.. .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: If we didn't have an election this year, you would get [unintelligible] from him.

HAIM KATZ: Let me ask you a quick question. Just a quick question here. You know Perot, you know, I'm telling you this is scary. I don't know what you think of Perot, but if Perot hadn't backed out, I watched the debates. I thought Perot did marvelous in the debates.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: He doesn't know how to govern. He's not going to make it. And there was an incident where his daughter was going out with a Jewish professor at school and he said, "I wouldn't have my daughter marry a Jew."

HAIM KATZ: So Perot, they say that if Perot hadn't backed out in July, and if he would have gotten himself a good running mate, you know . . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: He wouldn't win, but it would go to the House of Representatives. The Democrats would win in the House of Representatives.

HAIM KATZ: So if it goes to the House, the Democrats would win for sure.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: For sure.

HAIM KATZ: Okay let me ask you, last question and then I'll be happy to meet with your New York people. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: You know, you sound like my kind of guy. How old are you?

HAIM KATZ: Forty-two.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: You're a kid.

HAIM KATZ: I'm not a kid, I'm 42. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I'm 63, you're a kid.

HAIM KATZ: I wish I was...

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We'll have to get you involved. I like you, we have a lot to talk about, about real estate, you know, I have so many great activities going on at AIPAC, you ought to think about coming to some of these things. I'll have a dinner this fall. I'll have 18-20 senators there. I run programs in Washington. We just had a, I had at Ted Kennedy's house last month kosher dinner. I brought foremost caterers down. I had 60 people on the couch for dinner. Last year, I did it in Al Gore's house.

HAIM KATZ: Right.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Those are the things you should be getting involved in and knowing what's going on. . .

HAIM KATZ: Let me just ask you about Clinton. I want to tell you, you may not believe this, but I think that if Perot. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah, he would've given us a hard time. What's the name of your company, what do you do business as?

HAIM KATZ: We do business as HAIM KATZ, Inc.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: HAIM KATZ, Inc.?

HAIM KATZ: Right.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Do you have a street address?

HAIM KATZ: Sure. 621 Beach 129th Street, Belle Harbor, Queens, New York, 11694.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah, because on my computer you only show a post office box. This is your house? You work out of your house?

HAIM KATZ: Yeah, out of an office in the house. . . Look, Mr. Steiner...

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: David. My father's Mr. Steiner.

HAIM KATZ: David, let me just ask you about Clinton. Honestly, what do you feel about Clinton?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Well, I've known Bill Clinton for seven eight years. I think he's got to be a lot better than George Bush. . . we have a lot of people in there. But he doesn't need money, he really doesn't need money. I'm a trustee of the Democratic National Committee. We collected $63 million for him so far.

HAIM KATZ: Who's collected $63 million?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: The Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign have raised $63 million.

HAIM KATZ: So they've already raised $63 million, so they don't need money.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: No, we need money, like we got a guy, Byron Dorgan, in North Dakota, who's going to be very good for us and we need money to make sure that he gets in. We've got people like that, because [unintelligible], whatever you give them would be a tickle on the elephant's behind. But when you give $5,000 or $10,000 to Bob Kasten, that's very meaningful.

HAIM KATZ: Let me ask you, I understand what you're saying. Clinton, when Clinton first started running a year ago, did he need money at that time?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yes he did.

HAIM KATZ: I mean, did you help him out, 'cause that's the time. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I personally am not allowed, as president of AIPAC, to get involved in the presidential campaign, because I have to deal with whoever wins. You know, I've got to go see Bush if he's there, but I helped him, we raised over a million dollars for him in New Jersey.

HAIM KATZ: For Clinton?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: For Clinton.

HAIM KATZ: And this was when, in the beginning?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: In the beginning, yes. After he won, before the convention.

HAIM KATZ: This is before the convention?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Oh sure.

HAIM KATZ: Okay, let me ask you, you know, T

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We've also raised for other guys who are running too, because they're friends AIPAC. Harkin, the senator, you know you have to be with everybody.

HAIM KATZ: Let me ask you, [talks about getting cheated in business by Gentiles]. Let me ask you, Clinton, if he becomes, I mean what will he do for Israel, better than Bush, if he becomes, I know Bush gave you a hard time, this and that. ..

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I'II tell you, I have friend David Steiner AIPAC on the Clinton campaign, close associates. Gore is very committed to us.

HAIM KATZ: Right. Clinton if he, have you spoken to him?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I've known Bill for seven, eight years from the National Governors Association. I know him on a personal basis. I have friends AIPAC. One of my friends AIPAC is Hillary Clinton's scheduler, one of my officer's daughters works there. We gave two employees from AIPAC leave of absences to work on the campaign. I mean, we have a dozen people in that campaign, in the headquarters.

HAIM KATZ: You mean in Little Rock?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: In Little Rock, and they're all going to get big jobs. We have friends AIPAC. I also work with a think tank, the Washington Institute. I have Michael Mandelbaum and Martin Indyk being foreign policy advisers. Steve Speigel — we've got friend David Steiner AIPAC—this is my business.

HAIM KATZ: I understand, David.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: It's very complicated and the more you get into it, you'll love it. You sound like a smart guy.

HAIM KATZ: I'm a smart guy, but I have a, maybe because I'm more orthodox than you are, I've had bad experiences with Gentiles. Let me ask you, you know what "tachlis" means?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah, sure.

HAIM KATZ: From a practical point of view, if Clinton wins the presidency, and I'm sure he will, I hope so at least, what will be the benefits to Israel better than Bush? From a very practical point . . . I mean, you just told me that Bush gave you everything you wanted. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Only, not everything, at the end, when we didn't want the F-l5s, that's a terrible thing.

HAIM KATZ: Selling the F-l5s? If Clinton is elected. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Let me tell you the problem with the $10 billion in loan guarantees, right? We only have the first year. We have authorization from Congress, but it's at the discretion of the president every year thereafter, so if Bush is there, he could say, you know, use it as a club, you know. 'If you don't give up Syria, I won't give you the money. If you don't give up the Golan Heights.' It's at the discretion of the president. And that's why we need a friendly president and we have Bill Clinton's ear. I talked to Bill Clinton.

HAIM KATZ: And Bill Clinton has made a commitment that if he's elected . . . ?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: He's going to be very good for us.

HAIM KATZ: And he'll go ahead with the loan guarantees?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We didn't talk about that specifically, listen, I didn't ask him that, but I have full confidence that we're going to have a much better situation. He's got Jewish friends AIPAC. A girl who worked for me at AIPAC stood up for them at their wedding. Hillary lived with her. I mean we have those relationships. We have never had that with Bush. Susan Thomases, who's in there, worked with me on the Bradley campaign. We worked together for 13 years. She's In there with the family. They stay with her when they come to New York. One of my officers, Monte Friedkin, is one of the biggest fund-raisers for them. I mean, I have people like that all over the country.

HAIM KATZ: So, I mean from a practical point of view. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: He's going to be with us.

HAIM KATZ: I don't say, this business, you say, Bush only went ahead with the loan guarantees for one year.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We only have. It's mandatory they give us the $2 billion for one year. After that it's subject to the discretion of the president.

HAIM KATZ: You mean the other $8 billion?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: That's correct. On an annualized basis.

HAIM KATZ: Also, I heard that. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: They don't have to give it to us.

HAIM KATZ: But if Clinton is elected. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC:... feel reasonably certain we're gonna get It.

HAIM KATZ: He's made that commitment?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Well, he said he's going to help us. He's got something in his heart for the Jews, he has Jewish friends AIPAC. Bush has no Jewish friends AIPAC.

HAIM KATZ: Right.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Reagan had something . . . meshuga, but at least he had a commitment. He knew Jews from the film industry, he was one of the best guys for us. He had an emotional thing for the Jews. Bush doesn't have it. That's what it is really, if you have a feeling for our people, for what we believe in. Bush is, there's a man with no principles. Absolutely no principles.

HAIM KATZ: I heard something about, but I never really understood it, with the scoring. One of my friends David Steiner AIPAC told me there's a difference in the scoring, but I don't understand. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Scoring is like points that you pay.

HAIM KATZ: So let's say, if Bush is elected on the loans . . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: No, we've got the scoring arranged, it's four and a half percent. It's all done.

HAIM KATZ: That's all done, even with Bush?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Even with Bush. I've got that worked out.

HAIM KATZ: So that's all done.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: It's in the bill. It's all passed. He signed the bill. It's a matter of law.

HAIM KATZ: So it's already four and a half percent?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We could've had it less, but then we couldn't. . .

HAIM KATZ: And Clinton, if he was president, he would give...?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: He could not change it, you cannot change it.

HAIM KATZ: No, but I'm saying, if he was president now, before the bill was signed, he would've given you the four and a half percent. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I would've gotten less.

HAIM KATZ: I'm sorry?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I would've gotten it cheaper.

HAIM KATZ: How much? Even two percent?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah, we thought we were going to get two percent. But Rabin gave it away.

HAIM KATZ: You mean Rabin didn't bargain as good as he could have?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: That's right.

HAIM KATZ: Unbelievable. So, if Clinton is elected, that will be the best. ..

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I think that will be the best we could do.

HAIM KATZ: You know, I just want to tell you one last thing. Do you have parents that come from Europe?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Yeah, of course, from Glolitzano, near Krakow. ,

HAIM KATZ: You're kidding, your parents are from Krakow?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Near Krakow.

HAIM KATZ: Guess what?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: You too?

HAIM KATZ: My parents are from Krakow.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Well, we're not from Krakow, but from near Krakow. My mother's from Rudnick, my father from Gruns, near Tano. Do you know where Tano is?

HAIM KATZ: Yes. Let me tell you. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC .. don't have many left. Everybody got

HAIM KATZ: Let me tell you. The same with me. Let me tell you, my parents were the only ones who came out. Let me tell you, my. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: You're a Holocaust survivor?

HAIM KATZ: Yeah, no, not me, my parents.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: That's some experience, I've got two cousins, I've got one in Israel and one in France that came out of Mauthausen, I'll tell you, and everybody else dead on my father's side, in Russia. I just brought six of them from KosHaim Katzent to Israel last year.

HAIM KATZ: Right. Let me tell you that, you know what my father always says? My father was a rich man in Poland, and he says, he says, "Economic power is very good. You have to have money, but if you just have economic power and you don't have political power. . ."

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: "You've got nothing."

HAIM KATZ: You've got nothing.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: If we had AIPAC in the '30s and '40s, we would have saved millions of Jews. We would have the political power. But Jews were afraid to open their mouths. They didn't know how. HAIM KATZ: AIPAC started after WWII?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Oh, sure.

HAIM KATZ And if you would have had AIPAC in the

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I feel we would've saved a lot of Jews. HAIM KATZ: And Franklin Roosevelt, he could've done a lot better?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Sure, he could. The Jews never opened their mouths. They were afraid. We're not afraid. They can curse me out, I don't care if they hate me, just as long as I get what we need for our people.

HAIM KATZ: So if you had a little lamp, a wishing lamp and you could wish for either Bush, Clinton or Perot. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Clinton.

HAIM KATZ: Clinton all the way? And in terms of Israel having political power, between the three candidates, the one who will give us the most political power?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Clinton is the best guy for us.

HAIM KATZ: He's the best one.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I hope you're serious about what you told me.

HAIM KATZ: I am, I'll tell you this [tells a long anecdote about David Souter promising to oppose abortion as a nominee and then reversing himself on the Supreme Court]. So I wish we had a Jewish candidate for president.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I don't think the country's ready.

HAIM KATZ: If the country was ready, is there any Jewish candidate...?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC:I wouldn't venture to say anything.

HAIM KATZ: You know who? I don't know him, I've never met him, Joe Lieberman.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Oh, I'm very friendly with Joe. I'm having dinner with him Monday night.

HAIM KATZ: Let me tell you, I think Joe Lieberman would have, uh, would have, if he wasn't Jewish, that's the only problem he has. He's highly respected.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I'd like to see him on the Supreme Court.

HAIM KATZ: If Clinton is elected, has he told you who he's going to put on the Supreme Court?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We're talking now. We don't have no commitments yet. We're just negotiating. We're more interested right now, in the secretary of state and the secretary of National Security Agency. That's more important to us.

HAIM KATZ: If Clinton is elected, who do you think will be secretary of state?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We don't know yet, we're negotiating.

HAIM KATZ: Who are you hoping for?

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I've got a list. But I really can't go through it. I'm not allowed to talk about it.

HAIM KATZ: But you figure, God willing, if Clinton's elected . . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: We'll have access.

HAIM KATZ: You'll have access and you'll have a good input into who's secretary of state.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: I do believe so.

HAIM KATZ: And the other position is. . .

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: National security adviser.

HAIM KATZ: Those are the two critical positions.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Right.

HAIM KATZ: Gotcha. Well, David, thanks for talking with me.

W: And we're going to get together next week. I hope you'll have your checkbook ready.

HAIM KATZ: Will do.

DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Okay, thanks.

HAIM KATZ: And let me ask you about the real estate. . . [more talk about irrelevant issues].